Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

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Subey
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Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Subey » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:33 pm

Hi guys,

So this isn't motorsports but I figured it's close enough to go in this subforum :surrender I've been to Sandown for "high performance driver training" with a couple of groups, Driver Dynamics and The Formula Company - both run great days. I've been improving my driving and times each visit but think I'm getting close to where I'll need some serious advice to improve, so here I am.

Here are my best laps from my last two outings, August 15 and September 19 this year. P.S. How do I embed youtube videos???

August 15 - 1:29 (just)
https://youtu.be/4sBZEqy9dZE

September 19 - 1:27
https://youtu.be/ZOxFclOEqdA

I know I should brake later and can definitely carry more speed through corners, but with Sandown I get the impression that you don't want to find the limits of your brakes, tyres of ability there!

What sorts of speeds should I aim for on each corner? When do people generally brake? I'm currently targeting 40psi tyre pressure when warm, is this too high/low?

For the sake of completeness my WRX has brembos, decent rotors/pads, a 6 speed box, around 230kw and i'm running 225 wide Yoko AD07 rubber.

Thanks in advance, I know the WRX club has a wealth of experience so any tips would be gratefully received and appreciated :bowdown:

Mike

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby h-are » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:26 am

Hey mate,

You have time you can make up straight away.

Turn 1. Dont brake until just before the fence on the right turns colour (you'll see it when you watch the vid again.

Top of Dandenong. Dont brake till just before the break in fence on the right and carry more speed through Dandenong. Straightline to the bottom.

You will make up a load of time by these 2 things. We all have a lot of other things to clean up on our laps but these two things took 3 - 4 seconds off my time straight away.

My car has 200kw, brembos, 6 speed so sounds very similar to yours and I did a flat 1:23 last month (on a less than perfect lap....).

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Subey
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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Subey » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:40 pm

h-are wrote:Hey mate,

You have time you can make up straight away.

Turn 1. Dont brake until just before the fence on the right turns colour (you'll see it when you watch the vid again.


So around the 120-130m mark or thereabouts? From review it looks like i let off and coast for a bit when passing the stands, then stand on the brakes around the 150-160m mark. Thanks, i'll make a conscious effort to improve here.

h-are wrote:Top of Dandenong. Dont brake till just before the break in fence on the right and carry more speed through Dandenong. Straightline to the bottom.


Lol i'm already down to under 150km/h by here! OK more work to be done, thanks!

h-are wrote:You will make up a load of time by these 2 things. We all have a lot of other things to clean up on our laps but these two things took 3 - 4 seconds off my time straight away.

My car has 200kw, brembos, 6 speed so sounds very similar to yours and I did a flat 1:23 last month (on a less than perfect lap....).


Thanks for the feedback mate, much appreciated. I'm at Sandown again on Nov 15th so will see what these two corners can do to my times. Any feedback on lines etc? I know Sandown is pretty easy in that there's not many ways to take corners, but am I missing anything other than corner speed and braking?

Mike

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Subey
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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Subey » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:45 pm

One other question, is it generally better for brake temps and fade to either stand on them as hard as you can until you're at the target speed or to brake for longer but softer? I know the former for times but on a road car I'm not sure if that'll mean a lower safety margin or not.

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby JBonDSS » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:12 pm

Brakes - hit them hard then get off them get off them (of this is once there at operating temp)

2011 -HH 61.79 Calder 1:09 Winton 1.43 Sandown 1.30 PI 1.58
2012 - Heathcote 13.4 Calder 1.22(wet failure) Sandown 1.25 PI 1.59
2013 - Winton 1.44(7psi) Sandown 1.25 PI1.49 Sandown 1.26

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Lostprophet » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:11 pm

Ultimately the best thing for you to improve your times is to build up your confidence in the car you a driving. WRX's are truly amazing cars to drive and sandown is a great place to see the difference's in drive style to other drive line cars.
Our cars get amazing amounts of grip from acceleration. Unlike FWD and RWD cars who would usually brake very hard into corners and accelerate out, we can basically go in hard and accelerate In / Through / and Out of the corner. First corner of sandown is the best place to improve on this and learn the grip you can get. For me at corner 1 I am usually at 100% throttle just before I hit the apex.
As mentioned by H-are after the back straight you can accelerate all the way through the sweeping corner and this is another place where you will feel how much grip there is.
Once again hit those brakes hard. No need to ease off .
You wont ever go out there and just brake late and accelerate early, but you will learn the markers where to brake and when to accelerate later and earlier and just build to the point you know you are on the edge.
Also the first session you go out is the best time to learn the limits of your braking and tire temps. You dont want to find out at the wrong time your tire pressure is too high or you will just spin and there will be nothing you can do to stop it.
unfortunately I have had to take this year off from racing but my current best time is a 1:31 (while still being help up in traffic) and my car only has 118KWs with stock brakes. Cornering speed is what our cars do best.
-----Autobots transform and roll out-----
Street Class
Sandown 1:30.43 (23/04/2017)
Calder Park 1:12.26 (20/09/2014)
Phillip Island 2:00.09 (02/07/2017)
Broadford 1:10.41 (24/09/2017)

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby dbz » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:35 pm

All great tips here for Sandown! :) Sorry i haven't really got much to contribute because i have lots to learn myself! Its such a deceiving track, on paper it doesn't look that technical, but it actually is! Braking limits on the 2 long straights will definitely make up lots of time, and the intimidating back straight onto turn 6, 7, 8 , and learing which kerbs to take. I am still learning about my WRX as well, my bad habits, driving, tyres etc.. there are just so many things but thats the great thing about it, and why its so addictive :icecream:

Quite a few of us took in car videos that day as well and i love watching over them to find out where others are doing better and improve :thumbs:
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:49.7 Winton-1:36.1
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby h-are » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:02 pm

Your lines looked pretty good to me, keeping them carrying more speed is the challenge. Here is my 1:23 flat lap last month, a few mistakes and missed apexes but all in all its not a bad time, for what the car is.

https://youtu.be/x74YEFyyTTU

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby dbz » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:57 pm

h-are wrote:Your lines looked pretty good to me, keeping them carrying more speed is the challenge. Here is my 1:23 flat lap last month, a few mistakes and missed apexes but all in all its not a bad time, for what the car is.

https://youtu.be/x74YEFyyTTU


Nice vid :) What tyres and suspension are you running and those gear ratios are really close! Did you say you are putting down 118kws atw!? Car looks much quicker than that down the straight, i wonder if its due to the gearbox + tyres + suspension + lightweight chassis + good clean driving = good corner exit speeds.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:49.7 Winton-1:36.1
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby h-are » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:12 am

My car is bang on 200kws on 225's with BC coilovers.

My Racechrono was telling me my optimum lap was in the 1:21s.... but I never put it all together. The vid has a poor turn 4 & I completely ballsed up the bottom of dandenong.

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby dbz » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:21 am

h-are wrote:My car is bang on 200kws on 225's with BC coilovers.

My Racechrono was telling me my optimum lap was in the 1:21s.... but I never put it all together. The vid has a poor turn 4 & I completely ballsed up the bottom of dandenong.


Ah i see, sorry 118kws was lostprophet. And 225s as in R-comps? Or street tyres? Didn't sound like you were running street tyres but low 1:20s is a great time nonetheless punk
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:49.7 Winton-1:36.1
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby h-are » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:26 am

I run Z221s.

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby tim33h » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:39 am

Well done Subey, your vids look very smooth and controlled.

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Subey
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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Subey » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:13 am

That's some awesome feedback and tips right there guys, thanks so much. I have a lot to work on for my next outing.

My summary of feedback:
    Learn cornering limits for my vehicle
    Learn braking points for my vehicle and brake hard
    Carry more speed into corners
    Power out of corners using AWD grip
    Keep it smooth as smooth is fast

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby phantc_wrx » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:52 am

Nice driving Kyle!!

Good feedback on the 2 braking points as well. Looks like you'll gain heaps of time in those spots.

As you exit turn 4 and come onto the back straight you can aim for the middle of the track (don't need to head all the way over to the left) so you can straight line through the kink with minimal steering input. Not sure it'll make that much difference but worth testing. Interested to see how other members tackle this?

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby Subey » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:34 am

What sort of speeds do people carry through the sweeper at the end of the back straight? I'm at around 130-140km/h with 225 Yoko AD07 street tyres, coilovers and swaybars.

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby dbz » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:14 pm

phantc, watching the V8s i remember them saying if you keep left on the back straight you can shield yourself from some headwind so depending on the weather i guess :)

Subey - i am in 4th gear around 4-5000rpm so think i am around 130ishkm/h. I am on 245 Hankook RS3 stock suspension.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:49.7 Winton-1:36.1
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby rsturbo92 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:08 pm

just a few points I noticed that I hope will help.

- generally lines are quite good, you use the track well.
- speed is pretty good from what I can see.
- exit of t4 / approach to t5: as mentioned, don't run out wide to the left BEFORE t5, just straight line it (mid track) as much as possible to the apex of 5, then allow the car to run out wide to the left of the track
- t6: hug the ripple strip earlier and longer
- t7: there is more cut to be had there :P you should have the inside wheels almost on the grass!!
- exit of 9, don't go left, just straight line it again to 10. I nearly drop a wheel on the grass at 10. you were nowhere near the apex of 10 on that lap.
- t11, so much time to be saved by sacrificing your line here. get up on the sealed apron inside the ripple strip and hug the corner to give you the best line for the next corner which gives you better speed onto the straight. be careful of this though as its a big jolt to the car and very easy to loop it into the wall :wall:
- t13, unwind the steering before you get to t13, no need to apex this corner. a straighter line is better for speed and nicer on tyres.

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby h-are » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:36 pm

Thanks Pete.

Subey, Heres all my speeds;

As you can see turn 4 is way to slow, but I did get good drive for the back straight & the bottom of Dandenong is about 8kms off my other laps. Bugger.

Image

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Re: Sandown - looking for tips to improve my driving & times

Postby neptune11 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:51 pm

Subey wrote:What sort of speeds do people carry through the sweeper at the end of the back straight? I'm at around 130-140km/h with 225 Yoko AD07 street tyres, coilovers and swaybars.



I'm roughly the same, but could definitely through more into it, given more aggression, with my ADO8R, swaybars, lowered springs, anti lift and roll centre kit!!
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