FHR devices

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dbz
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FHR devices

Postby dbz » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:31 pm

I stumbled upon this very informative video on why its so important to invest in a FHR device if you are doing any sort of motorsport. Be safe everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiJgFlQrYhE&t=1s
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MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
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h-are
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Re: FHR devices

Postby h-are » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:20 am

Good reminder.

If doing any sort of motorsport, you should not need a governing body to tell you these are mandatory......

These are not just for big impact accidents, very low speed impacts can also have terrible results....

Its your life, you either value it @ less than $1,100 Or you have one. Pretty simple stuff.

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Re: FHR devices

Postby neptune11 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:38 am

From what I'm aware of that a FHR can only be used with a harness device & full race seat with side head support..
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Re: FHR devices

Postby blackrex » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:29 am

Correct, approved ones are designed to work as part of a whole system.
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Re: FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:24 am

However, Simpsons have a range of "Hybrid" ones. The use straps to body ( rather than harness) to restrict neck movement. They have FIA Approval If used with certified full harness, seat, helmet. However according to manufacturers they also work with just lap sash and helmet.
However, this has NOT been confirmed by SFI or FIA. PLUS instruction pamphlet with them says take your helmet and drill own supporting post, which breaks all FIA etc rules.
So if you want more protection when tracking your road car buy one. If you have a track car, spend money for a real setup.
The compulsory use of FHR at motorsport is making its way down the levels. It will be at our level of motorsport very very soon.


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dbz
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Re: FHR devices

Postby dbz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:52 am

I have the new Simpson Hybrid S, has FIA approved label on it and is the only one approved for use with 3 pt belt. Got it from Simpson Australia direct. The design is different to the other Hybrids. Will run it at the next trackday to see how it feels. I have a motorsport helmet with predrilled holes for HANS anchors. Just need to purchase HANS posts and good to go.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:50.9
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: FHR devices

Postby neptune11 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:10 pm

dbz wrote:I have the new Simpson Hybrid S, has FIA approved label on it and is the only one approved for use with 3 pt belt. Got it from Simpson Australia direct. The design is different to the other Hybrids. Will run it at the next trackday to see how it feels. I have a motorsport helmet with predrilled holes for HANS anchors. Just need to purchase HANS posts and good to go.

I'll have to come check it out at Broadford mate....you must have upgraded your monkey helmet then.. :cheer:
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Re: FHR devices

Postby dbz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:17 pm

neptune11 wrote:
dbz wrote:I have the new Simpson Hybrid S, has FIA approved label on it and is the only one approved for use with 3 pt belt. Got it from Simpson Australia direct. The design is different to the other Hybrids. Will run it at the next trackday to see how it feels. I have a motorsport helmet with predrilled holes for HANS anchors. Just need to purchase HANS posts and good to go.

I'll have to come check it out at Broadford mate....you must have upgraded your monkey helmet then.. :cheer:


Haha sure thing Shane :thumbs:
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:50.9
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:35 pm

The last time I looked the Simpsons hybrid only has FIA Approval for use with full harness. The SFI test used to test a FHR only does so using a full race seat, 6 point harness etc, FIA uses that result. Which if you think about it makes perfect sense. Why would FIA which is all about race cars approve a FHR with a road only lap sash.

http://docs.cams.com.au/Public%20Docume ... %20devices).pdf

Here is FIA write up on them, note full harness


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FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:38 pm

Hmm that link breaks.
Here is direct FIA One
Note must be used with full harness.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... _specs.pdf

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Re: FHR devices

Postby KuRT12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:22 pm

Pleiades wrote:Hmm that link breaks.
Here is direct FIA One
Note must be used with full harness.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... _specs.pdf

Hello Royce,

That documentation is for the old generation Hybrid model.

The new Model S is apparently FIA approved with 3point factory belt.

http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybrid/h ... ompatible/
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Re: FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Well, that is the latest from FIA ( June 2017) THE hybrid S is listed as homologated with a full 6 point harness on the acceptable list.
http://www.fia.com/file/60523/download/ ... n=pJQY64Ym


The claim in the Simpson advertising is only that it is also compatible with a three point harness, not that it is homologated by FIA for use with a three point harness in a race car. You might come to the conclusion that the advertising isn't as clear as it should be.

So yep buy one, use it with full harness etc in a race car.
But instead of having nothing if you have a road car, it is much better than lap sash alone.


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Re: FHR devices

Postby dbz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:16 pm

Pleiades wrote:Well, that is the latest from FIA ( June 2017) THE hybrid S is listed as homologated with a full 6 point harness on the acceptable list.
http://www.fia.com/file/60523/download/ ... n=pJQY64Ym


The claim in the Simpson advertising is only that it is also compatible with a three point harness, not that it is homologated by FIA for use with a three point harness in a race car. You might come to the conclusion that the advertising isn't as clear as it should be.

So yep buy one, use it with full harness etc in a race car.
But instead of having nothing if you have a road car, it is much better than lap sash alone.


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Hi Pleiades,

I actually clarified this with Simpson Australia that exact point and they assured me that it has been designed to be used with a 3 point lap sash belt. The Australian Simpson website seems to be marketing it clearly for users of 3 pt belts. http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com.au/O ... fault.aspx

"The New Hybrid 'S' is the Only Head Restraint in the World that works with 3-point Seatbelt Systems, allowing drivers of these cars to have added protection.

Working in conjunction with Ford, GM and more recently Porsche Clubs at 'Track Days' throughout the US, the Hybrid S's performance has been proven in the test lab with chief engineers from Simpson and Ford Motor Company, with Ford's engineers writing an SAE paper on the amazing results, 'RUBBER STAMPING' this unique progression in Head Restraint safety as THE ONLY DEVICE TESTED AND PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE WITH A 3-POINT STANDARD HARNESS."

FIA APPROVED
TESTED TO FMVS 208
HIGH QUALITY CARBON FIBRE
EXCELLENT PROTECTION WITH 3-POINT HARNESSES
CAR CLUB DAYS
DRIVING INSTRUCTORS
HIGH PERFORMANCE DRIVING EXPERIENCES
EXCEPTIONAL RACE CAR PROTECTION

If you watch this 1 hour webinar here (12min-24minute if you don't want to listen to the whole thing)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30mjEbQ ... lh&t=2175s

It might explain the crash test differences you were talking about, because they had to test the Hybrid with a 3 pt belt system they used the FMVSS carsh test standard which is a road car crash test standard. End of day the Hybrid S offers great protection 3 pt belt or not. test results with 3 pt belt showed a 60% reduction in neck tension and 33% reduction in neck injury criteria, which are what causes basal skull fractures and death. Even at very low speeds of 30mph the occupant can sustain 23Gs in a crash. The crash test results from the Hybrid S with a 3 pt belt have shown to be well below the SFI 38.1 failure level.

This product is perfect for grassroots / club level motorsport in particular the US HPDE market and people in street cars that cannot have a fixed back seat, 6point harness , half cage or harness bar etc. Remember race car setups are not safe for road use, so for a street car i would take a Hybrid S anyday.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:50.9
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:50 pm

Yep, I read all that some months ago.
And talked it over with Simpsons Australia at the time.

My point is still the same, It is only homologated for use by FIA in a race vehicle with full homologated seat, harness and helmet.

That it very likely does provide increased safety if you are in a road car with normal seat and harness.
That i look forward to seeing the SAE paper when it does turn up.
That if i was running a road registered car with normal seats etc at Club Days i would buy one.

That if i had a full logbooked car with homulgated seats, harness, helmet it would be an acceptable FHR and be allowed to race in it.

My issue is that its advertising infers that it is FIA homologated for use with a lap sash. Which is impossible, because you do not put lap sash belts in race cars, the test only uses a 6 point.

I worry that people might just buy the that harness and continue to use it with a lapsash in a semi-dedicated track car. When what they should do for maximum protection is go the whole hog, seat, helmet , FHR, Harness.



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Re: FHR devices

Postby dbz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:03 pm

Pleiades wrote:I worry that people might just buy the that harness and continue to use it with a lapsash in a semi-dedicated track car. When what they should do for maximum protection is go the whole hog, seat, helmet , FHR, Harness.



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Totally agree, and i hope people won't be that silly. The versatility of the Hybrid though.. can be left on all day; used when being a passenger/instructing; and if someone wants to take their motorsport more seriously in future years (street car to race car), they can still use the Hybrid S in a full race setup as you mentioned. There is nothing like it on the market.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:50.9
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: FHR devices

Postby Pleiades » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:46 am

Yep, though i would like to see some real test results on it using only a lapsash. It also seems that getting people in and out might be easier as well.
It would be nice if the advertising etc around it was more fact and less hype. Plus their instructions about drilling your own helmet is just not on.


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Re: FHR devices

Postby KuRT12 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 am

Hey Zhi,

Your earlier post shows it was tested to SFI standards (american), which would be below threshold of FIA testing.

So i understand Royces point that whilst it is FIA tested, it is only FIA compliant with a Full Harness.

-Kurt
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Sandown 1:20.48 - Winton 1:35.19 - Wakefield 1:06.84 - Phillip Island 1:44.96 - Broadford 1:03.80 - SMSP Gardner (AD08) : 1:48.05

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Re: FHR devices

Postby dbz » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:04 pm

KuRT12 wrote:Hey Zhi,

Your earlier post shows it was tested to SFI standards (american), which would be below threshold of FIA testing.

So i understand Royces point that whilst it is FIA tested, it is only FIA compliant with a Full Harness.

-Kurt


Yeah that's correct, the webinar explained that's because of the 3 pt belt steel rig they used it just can't be done at FIA crash standards. As pleidas mentioned the way they marketed the product needs work.

I think it now lies with CAMS as to how much safety gear they will want regulated as a minimum in club level motorsport, but imo this is much safer option than many out there that run a harness with no fhr, and it's a step in the right direction.
MY15 BRZ (Clubman Class) PBs: PI-1:50.9
MY15 BRZ (Street Class)
PBs: PI-1:54.7 Winton-1:39.9 Sandown-1:29.4 Broadford-1:08.5

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Re: FHR devices

Postby neptune11 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:03 pm

Yeah, I vaguely remember that when CAMS were at one of our club meetings earlier this year.
They said that any FHR should be used with a harness & race that has lateral head support...
So be interesting were they put this type of FHR..??
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Re: FHR devices

Postby h-are » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:13 pm

I may have miss reading this post but....

To clarify... I think any head restraint is good.

I have obviously been involved in a ****** huge accident and if I didnt have a hans on I would have had some major issues.... If you have not seen the footage and would like to just ask.....

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