Which Fuel

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Black-MY03
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Postby Black-MY03 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:20 pm

On the Synergy 8k here aswell - best fuel from what I've noticed (Peformance / Economy)

I do like BP but I just don't get the KM's out of it.

Also spend $5 instore and get 4c discount, too easy :)

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kooky
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Postby kooky » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:33 pm

I have found that Mobil seems to be the most consistant quality, I don't use shell but have found Vortex 98 to be quite good also.
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Mr Corduroy
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Postby Mr Corduroy » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:38 pm

Styla wrote:Has anyone used United 98boost??

I heard its not bad...and its cheaper?


I'm surprised that you weren't flamed with howls of protest.

If anyone suggests that Shell V-Power racing (5% ethanol) is a good fuel, everyone on here goes bananas about how bad ethanol is and that it is not recommended for a number of Subaru models (including STi's).

The United Boost 98 is 10% ethanol.

Personally I am a fan of ethanol so long as the manufacturer has designed the fuel system componenets and ECU tuning to cope with it.

I always use the intermediate United product (I think it is 96 octane) in my wife's Territory because it pings on normal ULP and I'll be d@mned if I am going to the expense of putting PULP in it.

I don't use Boost 98 in my WRX.
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cpitts
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Postby cpitts » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:00 pm

Sharpshooter wrote:My car is tuned on Caltex - Vortex 98 and Steve at AVO said it seemed to be fairly resistant to pinging compared to other fuels.


In a similar vein to this and to throw a spanner in the works here, my car has been reflashed at AVO as well.

It was tuned on 36'C+ day on the dyno and uses std TMIC, turbo, injectors, exhaust down to rear muffler. It made 165kW ATW and Steve was amazed that it didn't ping once during dyno or open road power runs/tunes.

It was tuned on Shell V-Power Racing 100RON.
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The United Boost 98 is 10% ethanol.

Postby MY00 » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:33 pm

I wish I could find 98 E10 in Canberra, once tuned for the lower density it supposed to be the same as 105-110 RON

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Postby Mr Corduroy » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:18 am

cpitts wrote:. . . It was tuned on Shell V-Power Racing 100RON.


So was mine. Now that they have hiked the price of this fuel I guess we both get to regret this decision.

When I had my car tuned for v-power racing it was only marginally dearer than Ultimate 98.

Not happy. :x
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Postby cpitts » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:21 am

hahahahaha, company pre tax so I don't really care too much. Mind u, I'm also averaging 7000-10000K's/yr so I don't feel it as much. :lol:
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Done: Intake, Brakes, Stereo 90%, bars, AVO TMIC
To fit: Sil intake, ECU, 3 Port, Walbro
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Postby Mr Corduroy » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:23 am

cpitts wrote:hahahahaha, company pre tax so I don't really care too much. Mind u, I'm also averaging 7000-10000K's/yr so I don't feel it as much. :lol:


I used to have a Novated Lease with pre-tax fuel too. The taxation system behind this incentivised high usage and fuel costs become irrelevant. It is a great scheme for running a Landcruiser for 60,000 kms/annum.

I am hoping/expecting the tax system to be changed soon to protect the environment!
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Trojax
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Postby Trojax » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:38 pm

Mobile Synergy 8000 or Bp Ultimate, never anything else.

Some which use add in octane boosters have a higher degradation rate in storage rather that those refined to these octanes.. shell is a prime example of a wannabe octane.. that shiny 100\98 will be 96- within a week in your tank, pfft crap fuel unless you do small refills regularly.
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Postby cpitts » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:21 pm

Trojax wrote:Some which use add in octane boosters have a higher degradation rate in storage rather that those refined to these octanes.. shell is a prime example of a wannabe octane.. that shiny 100\98 will be 96- within a week in your tank, pfft crap fuel unless you do small refills regularly.


100RON Shell stuff is refined differenty (not just mixed differently) and will lose its RON quite differently, even to 98 RON.

Given that you're accusations are pretty serious, do you have chemical evidence of your claims? Or is it just heresay and speculation on your behalf because it's the justification you use not to buy it?
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Postby MdMa » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:25 pm

Sharpshooter wrote:My car is tuned on Caltex - Vortex 98 and Steve at AVO said it seemed to be fairly resistant to pinging compared to other fuels.Michael


Also Brett over at MRT Rally, was doing huge test a while ago on all the fuels available then (no V-Power Extreme). He wasn't able to reveal the results due to pressure from the fuel companies... long story short, Steve was asked what fuel he uses in his own car.. response

Caltex Vortex 98

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[WRXTC]
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Postby [WRXTC] » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:04 pm

i was just told by the foremen at subaru in mentone that subaru recomend BP Ultimate as the best fuel to use in our cars :) so im sticking with that :)
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Postby Jammer » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:18 pm

1. Mobil Synergy 8000
2. BP Ultimate
3. Shell V-Power Racing (This probably gives the best power but very exxy and u go through it very quickly).
4. Shell V-power 98 (the sheet stuff, avoid this like the plague, it really is *** awful!)

That's in order of consistency from my findings.
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Trojax
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Postby Trojax » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:08 pm

cpitts wrote:100RON Shell stuff is refined differenty (not just mixed differently) and will lose its RON quite differently, even to 98 RON.

Given that you're accusations are pretty serious, do you have chemical evidence of your claims? Or is it just heresay and speculation on your behalf because it's the justification you use not to buy it?


There is a scientific study on fuel manufacturing processes I'm still looking for (if someone has the link please post, I'm sure it was posted before):

This post is very similar to what I had read in the study..

"Basically there are two types of 98 Octane fuels on the market, high aromatic and low aromatic. In high aromatic fuels the octane is raised by adding benzene derivatives such as Toluene. Low aromatic fuels are produced by refining the fuel to a higher degree so these types of octane boosters are not required. These fuels contain more aliphatic compounds.

Optimax is a high aromatic fuel and BP ultimate is a low aromatic fuel. These fuels behave very differently during the combustion process. Aromatic compounds take longer to burn and tend not to completely burn during the combustion process. This is why you can see soot on the rear of you car when using high aromatic fuels."

Sourced: http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15445

The scientific analysis also mentioned the additive breakdown process in high aromatic fuels and found the octane drops significantly faster due to high evaporation rates of these additives.

Personally I found shell 98 ran quite badly after 7 days and significantly crap after 14 days.

Never had a problem with Synergy 8000 or BP Ultimate.

Are you sure re the 100 ron being refined differently? It's my understanding ethanol is added later in the process to avoid as much as possible contamination by water which will kill it. Also afaik ethanol breaks down fastest of the lot.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/about_ethanol_fuel.html
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Postby cpitts » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:38 pm

I believe the V-Power Racing is created as 110RON and watered down with Ethanol. While 98 is created lower and beefed up to 98 RON.

Agree 100% with what you're saying re aromatic Hydrocarbons and Benzene molecules. They are highly volotile and certainly do evaporate quickly.

Soot/black carbon is always going to be the bi-product of an unclean burn.

Interestingly enough, I don't get this with my car that's been run on 100RON for most of it's life. ;)
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Done: Intake, Brakes, Stereo 90%, bars, AVO TMIC
To fit: Sil intake, ECU, 3 Port, Walbro
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Postby superfly » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:43 pm

cpitts wrote:
It was tuned on Shell V-Power Racing 100RON.


No way I'll ever use Shell again (unless I'm desperate).

I tried the 100RON stuff twice in my Vortex 98 tuned car. First time, in the middle of summer I got no knock at all which surprised me. So I thought this will be cheaper to use than octane booster for when I go racing.

So in March I had an event on so I filled up with the V-power racing and I was getting way more knock than I get with the Vortex 98. So I had to buy octane booster just to make sure it wouldn't knock.

Obviously a bad batch but enough to turn me off Shell.

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Mr Corduroy
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Postby Mr Corduroy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:56 pm

While we are having so much fun with science, I thought I'd throw in my 2c.

I understand why the old optimax (the 98 stuff) was high in aromatics - aromatics boost octane and it had no ethanol (which also increases octane). You could really smell the aromatics when I used to use this stuff in my XR8 on a cold start.

I'm not sure the summary written by Trojax applies quite so well to v-power racing which has 5% ethanol.

How do BP boost octane without using either aromatics or ethanol?
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Trojax
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Postby Trojax » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:20 pm

Mr Corduroy wrote:While we are having so much fun with science, I thought I'd throw in my 2c.

I understand why the old optimax (the 98 stuff) was high in aromatics - aromatics boost octane and it had no ethanol (which also increases octane). You could really smell the aromatics when I used to use this stuff in my XR8 on a cold start.

I'm not sure the summary written by Trojax applies quite so well to v-power racing which has 5% ethanol.

How do BP boost octane without using either aromatics or ethanol?


V-Power racing is a different issue as cpitts says, though not quite in the way it's made as ethanol has a higher RON than refined petrol (so can't water it down, it makes octane go up).

100 Ron ethanol blends are derived from standard fuel which then is propped by the ethanol which has a pure RON around 129.. sooo assuming 1 litre fuel with 50ml ethanol @ 129 \ 1litre you've just added 29PTS\950 (100base) approximately 3 RON to a litre, so starting RON is likely around 98... now I don't know about you, but I'd be taking a punt V-POWER racing is standard V-POWER with the ethanol added to bump it up 2-3 pts...

Doesn't matter though as fuel still suffers the same issues because Shell is taking the cheapest routes to pump up its octane (on top of the 98`), doesn't leave much margin though if supply is delayed... explains a lot why they seem to have more issues (at least on forums) with intermittent bad batches. If fresh it'd be no problems.

Bp don't boost octane, they refine it differently hence low aromatic fuel "by refining the fuel to a higher degree so these types of octane boosters are not required. These fuels contain more aliphatic compounds. " This is getting into complex territory for my brain though. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Trojax on Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jammer
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Postby Jammer » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:22 am

God you turn me on when u talk like that Trojax! :wub:
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Postby GhostDriver » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:48 am

Ha ha, it's love. As for me, I'm ultimate all the way. I have no scientific evidence or aromaics or anything like that... I've just had a "thing" for it since I got the rexie, and the increase in economy over the couple of tanks of 95 octane I gave it when I first got it seals the deal. I find I get between 80 and 120 MORE out of a tank, of course it is always possible that I drive more conservativley cause the stuff is so GOD DAMN EXPENSIVE at rural petrol stations (I'm back in Bathurst now).
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