Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

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Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:57 am

Hi Guys,

We are running a special for the WRX members and forum members for paint protection (Subaru need it bad with their soft paint)

Coating of the wheels, paint, windows, and lights with a warranty covering the vehicle for the lifetime you own it (basicly a non transferable lifetime warranty)

for $395 instead of $495.

We are also discounting the prep and correction by 15% and additional layers of the paint protection for $100 usually $150.

Bookings need to be made prior to the end on February.


Regards,

Mitch
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Kaoself » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:18 pm

Is this the Nano Shine, Mitch? How does it compare to Opti Coat 2?
Im definitely interested!
Last edited by Kaoself on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:30 pm

No, its not sorry. its better :) Ceramic Pro came to 2000 on the CSIRO testing in an independant lab and Opti-Guard (pro version) came to 1100 so bascily 80-90% more scratch resistant. :P

And Alot glossier
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Kaoself » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:31 pm

I must have edited that just as you replied. Weird timing?
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:45 pm

Thats ok but yea answer as above :)
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby XT1337 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:18 pm

I would like a link to the CSIRO test results, i wasn't aware they were into that field of testing.


And i have never seen a particular car manufacturers paint described as soft before.

My experience in those industries in Australia was that the paint supplier supplied identical paint to all suppliers. Even the colours were very close. The paint companies offered new colours that their research had found were acceptable to buyers. The car companies then picked and fiddled a bit with the colours.

And for the gloss readings do you have actual gloss measurements at 60deg for them.


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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:37 pm

XT1337 wrote:I would like a link to the CSIRO test results, i wasn't aware they were into that field of testing.


And i have never seen a particular car manufacturers paint described as soft before.

My experience in those industries in Australia was that the paint supplier supplied identical paint to all suppliers. Even the colours were very close. The paint companies offered new colours that their research had found were acceptable to buyers. The car companies then picked and fiddled a bit with the colours.

And for the gloss readings do you have actual gloss measurements at 60deg for them.


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Wow talk about a post that seems as though you are attacking my claims or calling me a liar :).

Here is a link to the certificates, though I can not see the 2000 rated scratch resistance one below are some videos you can watch :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mgEgbM0MPQ
(please note the below is also multiple layers, still impressive.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnF8LKGK4Rg




As for a particulars car being called soft well any person who deals with or has dealt with paint knows there is huge differences in manufacturers paint hardness and quality, take for instance Subaru who use a JIS standard for painting as opposed to German cars who use their standard (forgive me as I forget the name of it).

German cars are known to be harder, Italian paints with the exception of Lamborghini being soft and Subaru and Honda paints are crazily soft as per the R35 GTR paint with its "self healing clear".

I am unsure of your experience in the industry but I can assure you manufactures do not all use the same paint.

Being in the paint industry I assume you would understand that even the pigments used to make colours can affect the hardness such as (and as a vague example only)

a car from X in black might have a hardness of 3H whilst the same car in white same paint and what not might be 5H, now some are thinking that can’t be because there is a clear coat which would be the same and yes in a way but ultimately paints are never solid EVER and always malleable or "tough" therefore count on the sub straight they are applied to for hardness and whats inbetween the metal and clear...the colour.

I have not used a gloss gauge myself on it as a decent one is $3-5,000 though You can ask any client about the difference its night and day, with more then a few stating its like it has an extra clear coat and looks a lot sharper.

Regards,

Mitch
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby tigerking » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:05 pm

I'll back Mitch up on this. :thumbs:

How easy is it to buff the duco on a Japanese car compared to European cars i.e. Audi, Mercedes? To further add, average paint thickness also varies from manufacturers, i.e. Subaru 80-120 um, Audi 160-220 um.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:47 pm

Cheers mate :)

Yea unless they're really soft then they can be a bit of a pain. Even from year to year the paint can change brands and thickness especially when the Euro cars went to ceramic paints.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:47 am

XT1337 wrote:Nah, not having a go at you in particular.
It's just that that this is an area of automobilia that is full of snake oil salesmen. I want to look after our members.
I always found it funny that i checked hardness/cure for paints was by trying to scratch them with different pencils.

Of course the use of gel coats has made any difference in the speed of cure of a white or black paint hardness irrelevant.
But I am still very cynical about the whole sub industry.
It amazes me the use of pseudo science to justify paying 10 times the cost of a good level wax to gain a difference in life of your paint by an amount you cannot measure.



No worries,

With past events and donations I think I have proven I am not out to rip off members :)

Thats actually not how they do the hardness test its actually rated on grams of force applied before there is a mark or imperfection in which this number relates to a hardness rating :).

Not sure what gel coats have to do with the paint and I have no expertise in this so I cant comment.

This last comment shows that you have not read up nor research any of these products.

The coating itself has been proven to last years without re application, this means that it is coping the damage instead of the paint. This differs from even the best waxes (and I dont mean most expensive) in the way that even the longest lasting waxes will only last 6-8 weeks at MOST while traditional sealants might last a max of 6 months. Now this is only talking about protecting somewhat from rain and organic contaminants (for the wax this is)

The next point of difference is thickness whilst a wax or traditional sealant no matter how thick you apply once wiped generally only .25-.5 micron remains on the cars surface, with coatings (and yes this has been tested with a thickness gauge) and now talking about ceramic pro itself unlike others has shown any where from 2-3 micron per layer and can be layered upto 15 time before there is not point. meaning 5 layers has now given you a minimum of 10 micron extra protection.

This extra thickness and due to being a silica based product results in alot higher gloss.

Now we get to the hardness and protection, the MAIN reason people get these products, whilst a wax or sealant may not add any scratch or abrasion resistance insome case maybe a very small amount as shown Ceramic Pro greatly increases the scratch resistance. So while " the pseudo science to justify paying 10 times the cost of a good level wax" may seem amazing (and wrong I should state) to you I will run through some quick numbers below.

Lets say the average person buys their car and has it for 5 years and wants it upkept to look its best year after year. Now taking into account they use good maintenance and washing procedure ect. Oh and they own a soft black STI.

Year 1
Ceramic Pro- Average cost $895 including warranty and correction and prep
Detail and wax- $350

Year 2
Ceramic Pro- $50 for the check up and reapplication if it was worn of anywhere generally the only place is just behind the front wheels as it gets sand blasted
Detail and wax- $400- $450This time unless reapplying 6 weekly your car has had no wax for most of the year and no protection, so has likely suffered from water spots, scratches from merely rubbing on the car, or other things resulting in a higher cost this time. And NO no one can keep a car scratch and imperfection free with a wax on it for a year if you can Ill buy your secrets.

Year 3
Ceramic Pro- as above
Detail and wax- Also as above

Year 4
Ceramic Pro- as above
Detail and wax- Also as above

Year 5
Ceramic Pro- as above
Detail and wax- Also as above

So over the 5 years to keep your car mickey mouse Ceramic Pro has cost you $1095 getting the car detailed and waxed yearly has cost you minimum $1950, now add in the better gloss and no need to reapply waxes with ceramic pro a big plus for people, the ease of washing due to it being more hydrophobic than 95% of waxes most clients generally high pressure weekly and wash monthly and having the car away for less time you can see Ceramic Pro or even most (not all) coatings in general are alot better for most people. Unless you have a car that is never driven then in which car a nice wax might suit more.

Regards,

Mitch
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby muzza » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:16 am

XT1337 wrote:If you are paying to have your car detailed your costs are right.
As costs are mainly labour.
But i have never understood why you pay someone to do a job that you can do yourself.
Doing it yourself is one of the things i would expect i true car lover to do.


Time.

I bought all the polishing gear mths ago and i still have not had the time to fully detail my car.
For me having a spare 5 hrs+ is rare these days.

Keep up the good work mitch.

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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:23 am

XT1337 wrote:If you are paying to have your car detailed your costs are right.
As costs are mainly labour.
But i have never understood why you pay someone to do a job that you can do yourself.
Doing it yourself is one of the things i would expect i true car lover to do.


Look I dont think we are going to see eye to eye and it seems all you want to do it detur people from using a detailer or myself so maybe you should leave my sub forum.

By the way you are clearly small minded due to the fact costs also include, rent, gst, machines, income tax, product, rent, insurance ,water, electricity but obviously you dont think of these things.

As below time is an issue then take into account I can guarantee you would not detail a car as we do especially paint correction its not a buy the product and your as good as everyone else, there are years and many hours that go into product training technique and trial and error.

Its like saying well why does any one have their car tuned I mean a laptop the right program and time and you can do it...well yes but as well as a pro? as quick? as safe?

Anyone can service a car but for the price you pay for a full service is it worth you buying the products crawling on the ground finding somewhere to dispose of the oil CORRECTLY and spending a day under your car? for some that enjoy it yes but for most no its easier and safe to just drop it off and get it done.

I think you see my point. Good bye now.

Regards,

Mitch

muzza wrote:Time.

I bought all the polishing gear mths ago and i still have not had the time to fully detail my car.
For me having a spare 5 hrs+ is rare these days.

Keep up the good work mitch.



Thanks mate appreciate it.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby XT1337 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:10 pm

Actually
I do understand the costs of running a business, probably better than most.

But I dont think you can compare the level of expertise of a tuner or mechanic to a detailer.

I stopped servicing my car many years ago, but still would do my own car detailing.
I , like a lot of people, get a kick out of the final product.
But i can understand people who really don't have time and have money.

As i said i am just trying to get some facts about technical claims.
I know a little bit about paint and the automotive industry having been in them.

My understanding is ( i am clubs Technical Officer and committee member ) is that all supplier forums are currently in limbo.
Until the payments that have not been paid for a while are updated.
( now this not only due to the suppliers lack of payment but that a lack of having Advertising manager on committee following up. We again have an advertising manager. It is good having a full committee again)








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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:41 pm

XT1337 wrote:Actually
I do understand the costs of running a business, probably better than most.

But I dont think you can compare the level of expertise of a tuner or mechanic to a detailer.

I stopped servicing my car many years ago, but still would do my own car detailing.
I , like a lot of people, get a kick out of the final product.
But i can understand people who really don't have time and have money.

As i said i am just trying to get some facts about technical claims.
I know a little bit about paint and the automotive industry having been in them.

My understanding is ( i am clubs Technical Officer and committee member ) is that all supplier forums are currently in limbo.
Until the payments that have not been paid for a while are updated.
( now this not only due to the suppliers lack of payment but that a lack of having Advertising manager on committee following up. We again have an advertising manager. It is good having a full committee again)








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Ok Royce or what ever your name is, Good to see you voiced your oppinion :). Take care and have a good day sunshine
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby KevO-954 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:43 pm

XT1337 wrote:Actually
I do understand the costs of running a business, probably better than most.

But I dont think you can compare the level of expertise of a tuner or mechanic to a detailer.

I stopped servicing my car many years ago, but still would do my own car detailing.
I , like a lot of people, get a kick out of the final product.
But i can understand people who really don't have time and have money.

As i said i am just trying to get some facts about technical claims.
I know a little bit about paint and the automotive industry having been in them.

My understanding is ( i am clubs Technical Officer and committee member ) is that all supplier forums are currently in limbo.
Until the payments that have not been paid for a while are updated.
( now this not only due to the suppliers lack of payment but that a lack of having Advertising manager on committee following up. We again have an advertising manager. It is good having a full committee again)








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Royce,
I have read your posts on this thread and don't understand why you are so negative, as a committee member I would have thought first option is to support forum advertisers whether they are currently paid up or not (through no fault of their own), if I was an advertiser I would find it hard to renew if the hierarchy were questioning my product and knowledge.

I am disappointed in your view of a true detailer's expertise and might I say that a quick cut and polish doesn't make a detail.
I have done several detailing days and gained plenty of knowledge from the experts but still have less skill than these detailer's have in their little finger.

As someone who has painted and prepared my own cars, two that have been featured in car magazines back in the '80's I do appreciate what a real detailer can do to paint that is below average.
I can personally vouch for the three detailers that are on this forum who all spend a lot of time trying and testing a lot of new technology to make their jobs more profficient.

My brother in law bought a brand new black VE Senator which had supposedly been detailed at pre delivery, I spent 8 hours getting this paintwork up to a much better condition so that Mitch could apply the ceramic coating, the difference was chalk and cheese.
Until you actually do the work these guys put in maybe don't be so critical.
Kev.

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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby XT1337 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:02 pm

Kev ,
All i asked was that what appeared to be an appeal to the CSIRO as recommending a particular brand of paint coating, be justified.
Something they dont get involved in.

I am not sure if i have got that even yet.

I got what appeared to be Russian Youtubes. Posted by the manufactures.

I dont deny that Being a detailer is an Art or that they cannot charge a reasonable amount for their time.

But my original question has not been answered, nor has any reputable independent evidence of the increased life of a cars paintwork been given.

I have not been negative.
All i have said is give me a reference to the claims.

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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:45 am

XT1337 wrote:Kev ,
All i asked was that what appeared to be an appeal to the CSIRO as recommending a particular brand of paint coating, be justified.
Something they dont get involved in.

I am not sure if i have got that even yet.

I got what appeared to be Russian Youtubes. Posted by the manufactures.

I dont deny that Being a detailer is an Art or that they cannot charge a reasonable amount for their time.

But my original question has not been answered, nor has any reputable independent evidence of the increased life of a cars paintwork been given.

I have not been negative.
All i have said is give me a reference to the claims.

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Royce,
I said earlier here is the link though didnt paste it my appologies here you go http://www.nanoshine.com.au/tests.html . Hope you can accept this now.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby XT1337 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:33 pm

Love the test results
I used to do all them
But i have never seen them done on a coating over the paint before.
As they are paint tests.
They are testing things like adhesion of paint to the steel etc

Now i wonder if they were done on bare metal or painted surfaces.
Because the corrosion and other tests results would depend on the pretreatment of the steel and the prep and prime coat.

Viscosity of the fluid coating is completely irrelevant to anything apart from its ability to be sprayed etc.

I am still wondering about the whole hardness thing, i am not sure of the correlation between surface hardness and life on a car. But these things tend be be non linear.
What i mean by this is. If the normal paint has a hardness of 500 and product X has a hardness of 1100 and product Y has a hardness of 2000.

You cannot assume that product Y will resist everyday wear and tear almost twice as long as A.
Thats pseudo science. In real cases you would probably find that product X will protect the paint for about 4 times of bare paint. Product Y might only make it 5 times more than the bare paint.

What i would believe is if someone did half a bonnet in X and half a bonnet in Y and drove around for 10 years. And microscopically examined the surfaces for 10 years once a month.

What i would also believe is someone put a whole lot of coatings of different hardnesses ( between o and 2000 ) on a panel and drove around with it for 10 years.( testing like above) Then drew a graph of life versus hardness. Thats real science.


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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:47 pm

XT1337 wrote:Love the test results
I used to do all them
But i have never seen them done on a coating over the paint before.
As they are paint tests.
They are testing things like adhesion of paint to the steel etc

Now i wonder if they were done on bare metal or painted surfaces.
Because the corrosion and other tests results would depend on the pretreatment of the steel and the prep and prime coat.

Viscosity of the fluid coating is completely irrelevant to anything apart from its ability to be sprayed etc.

I am still wondering about the whole hardness thing, i am not sure of the correlation between surface hardness and life on a car. But these things tend be be non linear.
What i mean by this is. If the normal paint has a hardness of 500 and product X has a hardness of 1100 and product Y has a hardness of 2000.

You cannot assume that product Y will resist everyday wear and tear almost twice as long as A.
Thats pseudo science. In real cases you would probably find that product X will protect the paint for about 4 times of bare paint. Product Y might only make it 5 times more than the bare paint.

What i would believe is if someone did half a bonnet in X and half a bonnet in Y and drove around for 10 years. And microscopically examined the surfaces for 10 years once a month.

What i would also believe is someone put a whole lot of coatings of different hardnesses ( between o and 2000 ) on a panel and drove around with it for 10 years.( testing like above) Then drew a graph of life versus hardness. Thats real science.


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I am unsure about the viscocity test what they mean to be honest, the acid and alkaline test where on a painted substrate as per a car would be.

As for the hardness this is not what or where the life of the product comes from this is merely showing that your car will resist marring and scratches more than unprotected paint would. As you are right I could have a product 10000000x more scratch resistant than paint but might only last 24 hours.

The longevity comes from lab test to speed up the affects of "normal wear" asin a weekly wash for "10 years" or 520 cycles sort of a thing. with alkaline and acid based products.

Now lab results aren't always parallel with real world true but they do give a bloody good indication especially if the standard product ie paint or another coating are tested the same.


After for microscopicly inspecting monthly for 10 years it would be old technology by then anyway so sped up lab test as per almost every industry is the way to go.

As Steve Jobs once said "You cant rely on the consumer to tell you what they want as by the time you make it they want something else" This falls into the same line.

The other thing to note is this technology has branched from another technology that has been around a while and more than proven. You cant go through life doubting everything, do you call Castrol and question all their development and say well how do you know this extends engine life? Have you tested it in a car for 60 years cause thats how long I want this car to last. I can tell you they tell you the same thing about lab testing as I did above.
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Re: Ceramic Pro Paint Protection Special

Postby Immacreflections » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:42 am

Hi Royce,

I think you think you know more than what you do and have had numberous texts and messages agreeing you are out of line.

For starters prior to becoming a full time detailer I was a Quality Assurance Manager for a larger Australian company dealing in both China, Taiwan, Europe and the US and know alot about testing, standards and international standards.

For starters I can inform you, you are wrong in regards to ASTM as this is not always used as a worldwide standard and infact in some industries and certain countries is not recognised such as Watermark AS/NZS 3718 and AS/NZS6400. So please stop blabering on hoping people just dont know better I would greatly appreciate you leave this thread and do not continue replying.

As I stated previously yes lab testing is not 100% but it gives a damn good indication if under lab controlled conditions the coating extends the life and wear of a substrate by double or has 5 times scratch resistance there is a fair indication this will be the same in real life as I said an INDICATION.

So your saying the for instance Dulux started testing and developed their long life low fade paint 15 or 20 years ago and only after having it in the weather for that long started to sell it? If that is what you believe there is no point in discussing further.

Also yes all respected companies do batch testing as do Ceramic Pro Start middle and end of a run to ensure quality is kept consistent so stop going out on limbs only to be knocked back Royce.

I am not up to date with alkali and acid testing but I am sure manufacturers and testers alike would not waste time on un important test and money as I know what lab testing cost. But then again Royce you seem to know everything so I am not sure why you are not one of the most successful people in Australia due to your high level of supposed expertise in all fields.

Ok so as before you think castrol used their extended egnine life oil in a car for 30 years before they released it? doubt it and if not does that mean they are "a crook" also?

I still think and seems alot of other do also that you are just a grumpy old man with nothing left to do but be negative about things when you truely have had no first hand experience with an item at all. Maybe you should be fore you comment :)

This thread will now also get cleaned up soon as those Moderators seem to not take notice to messages :) Good job guys keep up the work.

Regards,

Mitch
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